The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.
All Official Reports of meetings in the Debating Chamber of the Scottish Parliament.
All Official Reports of public meetings of committees.
Displaying 1212 contributions
Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 29 October 2025
Jenny Gilruth
Can Ms Duncan-Glancy give me an example of what that might look like?
Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 29 October 2025
Jenny Gilruth
Yes, and that was the point that I was making to Mr Greer when I highlighted the evidence from Barnardo’s. I can say from my experience as a teacher who worked in mainstream education that restraint was not a practice that I was trained in, and nor were the vast majority of my colleagues. If anything, the counter was true.
We need to be mindful that most teachers will not view this as something that sits with them, because they believe that, when it comes to education, their first duty is to educate. Therefore, we need to be careful about that. The fact is that the bill—and, indeed, our guidance—applies to all settings. I have been pushing with officials the question whether we can be a bit clearer about that at stage 2, and we can discuss these points with Mr Johnson as the bill progresses.
I would not want to see an increase in the use of restraint practices; indeed, that is not the purpose of the legislation, as I understand it. However, such practices exist in some settings, and they have to be accompanied by staff who are appropriately trained. Most staff in our education services are not going to find themselves in those circumstances, because they work in mainstream education. As a result, we need to be careful about whom we are talking about.
I am sure that the committee will probe those points with Mr Johnson, but I should say that the trade unions put the same points to me last week when they raised concerns about the message that is being sent.
Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 29 October 2025
Jenny Gilruth
I suspect that there probably has been.
Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 29 October 2025
Jenny Gilruth
Train the trainer.
Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 29 October 2025
Jenny Gilruth
Do you mean between the introduction of the bill and now?
Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 29 October 2025
Jenny Gilruth
I have announced the financial support for the university, but I have also set out, in response to the convener, that the SFC is preparing conditions for funding that will support it to do just that. The conditions are important, given that this is public money. I do not think that any MSP at the committee this morning would expect public money to flow out the door without the Government attaching conditions to it, so that advice is coming to me.
Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 29 October 2025
Jenny Gilruth
It is fair to say that I would have hoped that we would have been able to move more quickly. There have been other issues in relation to recent changes in the SFC, which we need to be mindful of, but we are here to support this institution. I think that you know that that is the Government’s position. We will continue to engage with the management team and with the SFC, which I will meet very shortly.
Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 29 October 2025
Jenny Gilruth
It is difficult to comment on individual incidents, but would we be saying that individual incidents of restraint would always trigger support? I am not necessarily sure that they would. The level of support may vary and look different.
In Scottish education, we place a lot of trust in those who are on the front line. We say that they are the decision makers and that they have the professional skills and knowledge to decide on the best support to put in place. I think that Ms Duncan-Glancy pursued a line of questioning with some of the witnesses about what post-incident support would look like. I am happy to consider that as part of our discussions at stage 2. However, what that would look like would vary according to the individual incidents and individuals in the schools.
Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 29 October 2025
Jenny Gilruth
I am sympathetic to the points that you make, convener. I would just observe that the statutory responsibilities currently rest at local authority level; I have some powers at national level, but they are limited. When we come to talk about these issues, I would like to see far more Scottish education data in that regard. I am sympathetic to the points that you have made, but local government will not be, so we need to work within the current parameters.
That said, I think that the bill, although it is very focused on restraint, speaks to a wider issue in relation to how we deliver education. I have made the same point previously. The committee will be aware of the appointment of John Wilson, which local government is not particularly fond of—I am sure that members will have seen some of the feedback in that regard. I think that, post the pandemic, we need to think about how we fund our schools, how they are governed, how we support them and what the accountability mechanisms are at both national and local level. I hope that Mr Wilson’s appointment will reassure the convener on that point.
What I would say to committee members—I have said this in the chamber, too—is this: please sit down and speak to Mr Wilson about the issues that you, as members, have encountered in relation to the delivery of education.
You raise some important points, convener.
Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 29 October 2025
Jenny Gilruth
I am happy to do so.