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Seòmar agus comataidhean

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 8 April 2026
  7. Session 6: 13 May 2021 to 8 April 2026
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Displaying 3502 contributions

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Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Commencement

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Gillian Martin

That is why we may want to link the two provisions.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Commencement

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Gillian Martin

That has to be a defence.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Commencement

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Gillian Martin

I do not know when stage 2 will be. Is it not the convener who decides that? You asked me whether I think that we have time to deal with all the unintended consequences. I do not know whether I can answer that.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Commencement

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Gillian Martin

Of course, this is not my bill. I am giving evidence on someone else’s bill.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Commencement

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Gillian Martin

Do you mean so that they can implement the legislation or so that they can respond to environmental events?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Commencement

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Gillian Martin

With every piece of legislation that asks more of our public bodies, we need to take into account what resources they would need to carry that out. That is a normal part of government, and it is done through budget negotiations. Every portfolio that has responsibility for public bodies will put those arguments forward to the finance secretary.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Commencement

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Gillian Martin

I do not think that we can quantify that yet. You asked that question of academic legal experts—

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Commencement

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Gillian Martin

Yes, I do. I want to acknowledge the role that Monica Lennon has played in raising the profile of the importance of preventing serious damage to the environment. Her consultation on the bill showed that environmental crimes are extremely important to the public, and it is absolutely right that we analyse whether we have provision in law to reflect the seriousness of those crimes.

I have had useful discussions with Ms Lennon as she has developed her thinking on ecocide-level offences, which are, thankfully, very rare. Scotland has the opportunity to be among the first nations to have an offence of ecocide in criminal law, and I am supportive of the general principles of Monica Lennon’s bill. Obviously, I will consider the committee’s stage 1 report, but, today, I will outline some areas of the bill that the Government would like to amend.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Commencement

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Gillian Martin

We were already considering the revised EU environmental crime directive under our alignment policy, and the section 40 offence already goes beyond what the previous version of the directive required.

However, the bill, if it were passed, would be a stronger response to the directive’s provisions for qualified offences. We must recognise that what Ms Lennon proposes would make us one of the first countries to have an ecocide offence in law, so we would be going further. However, we might look at how many other countries in the EU and around the world are considering introducing such an offence. There is a considerable movement, and a campaign, in that regard.

We want to maintain our policy alignment wherever possible. One aspect of the directive is that it requires the introduction of higher potential punishments for qualified offences, covering a wide range of existing offences, and an enhanced level of punishment for more serious environmental damage. We have the existing legislation—the 2014 act—which, again, sets a very high bar in section 40, but Ms Lennon is proposing an even higher bar for the most serious ecocide events.

The proposed penalties in the bill go further than the existing penalties. We are already looking at alignment—in fact, we are already broadly aligned—but the bill would take us beyond alignment, and that is no bad thing. We could go further.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]

Commencement

Meeting date: 2 December 2025

Gillian Martin

Yes, we could do both. We could have a stand-alone bill, as Monica Lennon is proposing, or we could reform the 2014 act.