Seòmar agus comataidhean

In many ways, that question goes back to my earlier answers to Willie Rennie about what information is collated. Part of that is the curriculum for excellence levels data, which we gather in order to assess young people’s progression through the levels. It is very important to look at what has been learned over that period, and the data is there. It is also important to look at the health and wellbeing of young people through that process. In December, there will be another survey on health and wellbeing, so that we can assure ourselves about where we are on that aspect. Of course, we expect the Government to keep a close eye on that not just because of the pandemic but generally. The national improvement framework interactive evidence report provides an overview of what we know about education and the context of young people’s progress, so that is being looked at.

Work is also under way to gather additional evidence for the 2022 national improvement framework from the lockdown lowdown survey as well as from surveys of headteachers and from the health and wellbeing census of pupils from P5 to S6.

We will look very carefully at what the OECD has recommended. One of the challenges that we will have in taking the report forward is that there is a lot of change in it. Some of those changes can happen at the same time and some of them will have to happen on different timescales. Part of the reason for that is that our collaborative work with stakeholders to get the details of that change correct—which I believe that we should do—will take some time.

There is a lot to do. Some of it is work that we can undertake quite quickly, and in some areas, as I have said, it will take time. As I look to make further announcements on this, I will try to set out what we can do in the short term and to highlight the areas that will take longer. Part of the OECD’s suggestions about how to take things forward involved the time that it takes to take them forward.

The manner in which we do that is exceptionally important. As I said in earlier remarks, I am determined to play a collaborative role as education secretary. The committee and the Parliament will decide how it wants to take forward any work on these issues, but I will be more than happy to work with anyone and everyone who has a role. There are a number of challenges in the report, and not all of them can be addressed at the same time or quickly.

I genuinely do not think that anyone who has followed what I have done since I came into this portfolio would suggest that I have given up on reform. It has been a busy time for reform in the education system.

Previous drafts of the education paper that was published yesterday were shared among members of the education recovery group on numerous occasions. We have shared the document widely with our stakeholders as we have gone through the process.

If Oliver Mundell has proposals for different policies, I would be more than happy to meet him about those, as I said at the start of my tenure as education secretary. We are about to begin the budget process. If he does not like what is in the material that came out yesterday, I look forward to seeing the proposals that the Conservatives will make on the issue.

The document that was published yesterday was a collation of what the Government is doing. Funnily enough, the Government did not start thinking about recovery in education over the past month; it has been at the forefront of our minds since before the election. That is exactly why we have put in place a lot of the measures that we have. The Government was elected on a manifesto that was designed to assist Scotland through recovery from the pandemic, which makes it unsurprising that the recovery programme that we had in our manifesto plays loud and strong.

We have ensured that we have in place policies that turn their full attention to recovery. For example, the Scottish attainment challenge is not new but, of course, it has been examined to ensure that it takes all the lessons from the pandemic so that, when I make more announcements on the Scottish attainment challenge refresh, I will not be announcing the same types of policy and funding streams as in the past, because we are moving on.

Of course we are using the different policy levers that we have had for some time and turning their attention to the pandemic. I do not think that the committee would expect anything less.

The SQA cannot ask for the date to be brought forward if the commission says that a delay is needed. That was the reason behind that.

When it comes to the terms of reference of the review, and the feelings of the unions and staff, I fully appreciate that, given my announcement that the SQA would be replaced, this is a time of great concern for staff. They are exceptionally passionate about their jobs and they are good at their jobs. As we go through the review process, there is clearly a concern about how they can be heard.

Different stakeholders made a number of points when we looked at the draft terms of reference in order for Ken Muir to take up his position. Again, as with all these processes, not all the suggestions of changes to terms of reference can be made. However, I hope that, since Ken Muir came into post, the unions have seen that they will absolutely have an ability to have direct discussions with him. My understanding is that that has happened already, and I am sure that it will continue to happen, although it is for Ken Muir to decide on that process. All staff will be able to feed into the process of the review. It is not the case that senior management will have discussions with Ken Muir, while the staff will be kept separate or that there will be one voice of the SQA that will be assumed to represent all staff. All staff, unions and, as people would expect, senior management on the board will be able to have their say in the review process.

I will certainly undertake to do that and get back to you in writing on that.

Just to be clear, the intention, as I understand it, was that the report would be out before Fiona Robertson’s appearance at the committee, but the commission required a change in date. That decision was made by the commission. It could not be changed by the SQA.

I assure you that I keep a close eye on all the agencies within my remit. I think that SDS is working effectively. I have tried to make it clear that we are not taking anything for granted, which is why we are assessing the training packages to see whether they are fit for purpose. We know that we need to do better on the alignment between the skills packages and the education packages.

Yes.

You may say that it has been criticised widely but, in its 2015 review of education in Scotland, the OECD said that the sample approach of the Scottish survey of literacy and numeracy did not give national agencies enough evidence.

The OECD has told us in the past that sampling does not provide the right evidence to allow national agencies to take the right decisions on the right course of action. There is a balance to strike on sampling and the type of sample data that we collect. We continue to participate in the largest international survey—the programme for international student assessment, or PISA—but we have to think carefully about whether sampling provided us with the information that was required. In 2015, the OECD said:

“light sampling of literacy and numeracy at the national level has not provided sufficient evidence for other stakeholders to use in their own evaluative activities or for national agencies to identify with confidence the areas of strength in the years of the Broad General Education across the four capacities of CfE. Nor has it allowed identification of those aspects or localities where intervention might be needed.”

That is a direct quote from the OECD saying that we should be cautious about the use of sampling. There has to be some use of sampling and some use of census.

It is important that we have the information that we use on curriculum for excellence levels on a pupil-by-pupil basis so that teachers, schools and national agencies know what is happening in our schools. If we did not have that, it would be exceptionally difficult at a national level—and even, I suggest, at a local government level—to make the correct decisions about where more support might be required, such as more staffing, additional funding or an additional initiative for a school. It would be difficult to do that if we did not have the data at the level at which we are producing it.

There must be a balance. I am absolutely conscious of the fact that there is a variety of views on the use of sample data and census data. As we respond to the OECD survey, we will, of course, consider very carefully the recommendations that the OECD has given us in the most recent report—the quote that I read out was from a previous report. I am not saying that we should do nothing on data and that I take a fixed position on absolutely everything to do with it. We should always challenge ourselves to ensure that we collect the right data in the right way and that it is used effectively.