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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 8 April 2026
  7. Session 6: 13 May 2021 to 8 April 2026
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Displaying 4079 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2022-23: Public Finances and the Impact of Covid-19

Meeting date: 14 September 2021

Kenneth Gibson

Indeed—I suppose so. However, it would affect some people disproportionately. If they then had to invest elsewhere, they might not necessarily gain proportionately.

What is David Eiser’s view on the matter? Where should we look to disinvest if we are going to spend or invest—however you want to phrase it—in order to have more effective outcomes for Scotland?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2022-23: Public Finances and the Impact of Covid-19

Meeting date: 14 September 2021

Kenneth Gibson

I wonder if we can hear briefly from Ray Perman and Susan Murray on this question. After all, it is fundamental to what we are trying to achieve.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2022-23: Public Finances and the Impact of Covid-19

Meeting date: 14 September 2021

Kenneth Gibson

Thank you. I thank all our witnesses. We have run over time, but we will have a break until 11.15.

11:03 Meeting suspended.  

11:13 On resuming—  

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2022-23: Public Finances and the Impact of Covid-19

Meeting date: 14 September 2021

Kenneth Gibson

We now turn to our second panel of witnesses on Scotland’s public finances and the impact of Covid-19. We are joined by David Eiser, senior knowledge exchange fellow, Fraser of Allander Institute; Susan Murray, director, David Hume Institute; and Ray Perman, fellow, Royal Society of Edinburgh. I intend to allow up to 90 minutes for this session. Members have received written submissions from each of our witnesses. I welcome everyone to the meeting—I give the witnesses a particularly warm welcome for coming here in person, which the committee greatly appreciates.

I start by asking something of the David Hume Institute. Under item 3 in its submission, it says:

“At a time of multiple challenges and tight public finances, hard choices are almost certainly going to involve choosing to stop spending money on services or initiatives that are achieving public good, and are valued by their recipients or stakeholders in order to start or increase spending on other areas that are now judged a higher priority.”

With many of the witnesses we have heard from, it has been like drawing teeth to get them to say where they would disinvest. Everyone has come to the committee and said, “We require additional funding in our areas.” We have explained that we might have only a 2 per cent real-terms increase in the budget, but all our witnesses appear to feel that that should be specifically targeted at their sector.

I hope that Susan Murray and other colleagues will help by contributing some ideas as to where disinvestment can take place, because, if we are going to spend money more effectively and deliver better outcomes, that will need to happen. Do you have any examples that you can share with the committee?

11:15  

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2022-23: Public Finances and the Impact of Covid-19

Meeting date: 7 September 2021

Kenneth Gibson

I have further questions that I will leave to the end if there is time. I am keen to let other members in.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2022-23: Public Finances and the Impact of Covid-19

Meeting date: 7 September 2021

Kenneth Gibson

Is LBTT or house price inflation more likely to inhibit people’s ability to move to larger properties? That is in places such as Edinburgh. I am not talking about North Ayrshire, which I represent and where, for £0.5 million, you can buy a palace, never mind a house. I have a five-bedroom detached house with a garage, which cost me £145,000. There is a big difference between house prices across the country. What is your view on that?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2022-23: Public Finances and the Impact of Covid-19

Meeting date: 7 September 2021

Kenneth Gibson

The Parliament will spend some time deliberating that in the months ahead. Further on in your submission, you state:

“Planning and tax incentives to encourage mixed-use developments could support regeneration and help realise the ambition of 20-minute neighbourhoods.”

What planning and tax incentives did you have in mind there? Does Joanne Walker have any ideas in that area?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2022-23: Public Finances and the Impact of Covid-19

Meeting date: 7 September 2021

Kenneth Gibson

We will want to explore that in further depth.

Joanne, would you like to reply to the question on tax incentives to encourage mixed-use development?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2022-23: Public Finances and the Impact of Covid-19

Meeting date: 7 September 2021

Kenneth Gibson

I was not sure about that, but I thought that I would give you the opportunity, anyway.

We have come to the end of our time. I thank our guests for their evidence, and particularly Kevin Robertson for coming in today.

We will have a two-minute break to allow our witnesses to depart, and then we will continue with the rest of the meeting.

12:32 Meeting suspended.  

12:35 On resuming—  

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2022-23: Public Finances and the Impact of Covid-19

Meeting date: 7 September 2021

Kenneth Gibson

Sorry, can I just interrupt you there? Age Scotland did not make that suggestion in a vacuum—the point was that the money could be reinvested in aids and adaptations for older people. The money would still remain with older people, but it would be spent on something different as part of the preventative spend.

Age Scotland was saying that, if we did not spend money on concessionary travel for those aged between 60 and 65, we could invest it on improvements for them. The organisation got a bit of a win, in fact, because, although Mr Swinney did not remove the concessionary fare, he increased investment in that area by 25 per cent in that particular financial year. Suggesting something to disinvest in and something better to invest in gave him food for thought.

That was the background, just in case you think that your predecessor was suggesting that older people should be disadvantaged in some way. I apologise—I should have said that initially.