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Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 9 November 2021
Kenneth Gibson
Under item 3 we will take evidence from Stephen Boyle, Auditor General for Scotland, Professor James Mitchell, University of Edinburgh, and Professor Graeme Roy, University of Glasgow. I welcome our witnesses to the meeting.
Members have received a paper from the clerks setting out background information, along with written briefings from two of our witnesses, Professor Roy and Stephen Boyle. Before I open up to questions from the committee, I invite each witness to make a short opening statement. I would like Professor Mitchell to go first, because he has not provided a written statement. [Laughter.] That, by the way, was not in the script.
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 9 November 2021
Kenneth Gibson
You talked about the political will and, in his submission, Professor Roy said:
“There are huge institutional, practical, and political constraints in public service delivery.”
Is the issue that political parties fear the electoral consequences of such radical changes, is it to do with vested interests in the public sector or is it perhaps a combination of those issues? If you were to start the ball rolling from where we are at this time, where would the number 1 bottleneck be? I would like all the witnesses to answer that question.
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 9 November 2021
Kenneth Gibson
Thank you very much for that very interesting opening statement. We talked in private session about the spring budget revision. Will that be coming out in January or February? Do we have any indicative dates in that respect?
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 9 November 2021
Kenneth Gibson
Thank you for your opening statements. The esteemed Professor James Mitchell asked:
“if we are all agreed, why has it not happened?”
Why do you think?
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 9 November 2021
Kenneth Gibson
You mentioned capital, and we understand that there have been huge increases in material and labour costs at rates that are higher than inflation. Given that, how is the Scottish Government planning its capital investment? Because of the changes, does it look as though we will get less for the same amount of money? Given that our capital budget’s buying power is decreasing, is the Scottish Government looking to increase its capital budget in order to do the same with more money?
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 9 November 2021
Kenneth Gibson
Thank you. You talked about the NHS and mentioned that the autumn budget revision allocates £834 million to the health budget for Covid-19 response. However, that is reduced to a net increase to the health and social care portfolio as a whole of £473.2 million. Do you believe that the transfers—which include £292.6 million to social justice, housing and local government to support integration, school counselling services, carer’s act, free personal and nursing care and the living wage—fulfil the spirit of why that money was allocated as consequentials in the first place?
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 9 November 2021
Kenneth Gibson
Professor Roy, I would like you to elaborate on what Professor Mitchell said. You said in your submission:
“The lack of attention to delivery means that the Christie Commission has become almost an idealist document in the eyes of some rather than a useable guide for delivering public service reform in practice.”
Why is there a lack of attention to delivery?
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 9 November 2021
Kenneth Gibson
Thank you. I open up the session to questions from other members, starting with Daniel Johnson.
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 9 November 2021
Kenneth Gibson
I thank the minister and his officials for their evidence and my colleagues for their questions.
Agenda item 2 is formal consideration of the motion, which I invite the minister to move. Members have no further comments, so I will put the question. The minister has not moved the motion yet.
Motion moved,
That the Finance and Public Administration Committee recommends that the Budget (Scotland) Act 2021 Amendment Regulations 2021 [draft] be approved.—[Tom Arthur]
Motion agreed to.
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 9 November 2021
Kenneth Gibson
Agenda item 1 is an evidence-taking session with the Minister for Public Finance, Planning and Community Wealth on the draft Budget (Scotland) Act 2021 Amendment Regulations 2021. I welcome to the meeting Tom Arthur, who is joined by Scottish Government officials Niall Caldwell and Scott Mackay, and I invite him to make a short opening statement.