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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 8 April 2026
  7. Session 6: 13 May 2021 to 8 April 2026
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Displaying 1467 contributions

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COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Ministerial Statement, Coronavirus Act Reports and Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 16 September 2021

John Swinney

The winter preparations started some time ago in order to ensure that we are ready for the pressures that are inevitably put on the health service during autumn and winter. Frankly, that is why the Government is taking some of the steps that we are taking. I accept that they are not the most popular measures that we have ever taken, but they have to be taken in order to try to suppress the prevalence of the virus.

I do not have today’s numbers in front of me, but on Tuesday we had 1,064 people in hospital with Covid, which is a very high number of admissions to hospital because of Covid. The Cabinet regularly sees modelling of what might happen if we do not suppress levels of the virus. Those levels translate into levels of hospitalisation.

There might now be a different ratio. Back in the early part of the pandemic, about 13 per cent of people who had positive tests for Covid were hospitalised; now, it is about 2 per cent to 3 per cent. The difference is that the level of positive tests is much higher today than it was 12 months ago, which translates into more people, which puts more pressure on the national health service.

11:15  

In addition to that, the national health service is undertaking two other aspects of work. It is providing the normal emergency care that is necessary—Mr Rowley mentioned news articles about very alarming and totally unacceptable circumstances—and it is dealing with routine elective work, which had been slowed up or paused entirely because of Covid. Therefore, the national health service is under phenomenal pressure. What we can do in advance of the winter is suppress levels of Covid in order to reduce the number of hospitalisations and to relieve some of the pressure. That will work across all aspects of the health service, whether it is ambulance services, acute admissions or elective care.

There are huge pressures on the national health service. Winter preparations have been and continue to be made—we have more people available to work in our national health service—but there will be challenges resulting from the level of Covid in our society.

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Ministerial Statement, Coronavirus Act Reports and Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 16 September 2021

John Swinney

I recognise that point, which is material to the definition of a nightclub and which relates to a point that representatives of the nightclub sector have put to me. If we look at venue A, which, for argument’s sake, we will say closes at midnight, and venue B, which closes at 3 o’clock, we can see that there are two very different propositions, even if both venues involve music, dancing and the availability of alcohol. If someone has been out since the early evening, going to a venue that closes at midnight could make for a long night, but if they are out until 3 o’clock in the morning, it is a very different proposition. However, there might not be an awful lot to distinguish the two venues, and that is one of the issues that we are wrestling with.

We are discussing that with the sector to make sure that we do not create a situation where there is disadvantage because of the way in which the definition is constructed. We are looking at that issue very carefully in order to try to resolve it.

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Ministerial Statement, Coronavirus Act Reports and Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 16 September 2021

John Swinney

Those are all significant issues. I will talk through some of the points on vaccine uptake and the headline direction and I will perhaps rely on Professor Leitch to add specific details. I will go on to address some of the points that Mr Rowley has legitimately raised about particular groups and the efforts that are taken to try to increase uptake.

Uptake of the vaccine has been very high. The uptake level in a routine flu vaccine programme pre-Covid, for example, would be of the order of perhaps 65 to 70 per cent. In the over-40s cohort, the level of double vaccination is significantly in excess of 65 per cent; indeed, it is over 80 per cent now.

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Ministerial Statement, Coronavirus Act Reports and Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 16 September 2021

John Swinney

Compared with the uptakes in normal vaccination programmes, that is a really high uptake for the over-40s. The figures for the 30-to-39 and 18-to-29 cohorts have been at lower levels. Professor Leitch can give the specifics on where those figures are now.

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Ministerial Statement, Coronavirus Act Reports and Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 16 September 2021

John Swinney

The work is under way to do that. As Professor Leitch has said, individual circumstances might need a level of manual intervention to resolve the issue for individuals. At this stage, if people are in the situation that Mr Fraser has highlighted, whereby they have had a vaccine in a different jurisdiction and need to resolve the implications of that for their vaccination certification, I encourage them to engage in the practical mechanisms to resolve those issues. Obviously, as time goes on, we will be able refine further the systems in the common travel area so that they all speak to each other effectively, which will avoid the degree of manual intervention that we have highlighted. I reassure people that the steps that are required to resolve those issues are able to be taken.

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Ministerial Statement, Coronavirus Act Reports and Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 16 September 2021

John Swinney

The general picture on vaccination is therefore encouraging. The numbers relating to 16 and 17-year-olds, which Professor Leitch has shared, are an indication of real enthusiasm to come forward. I pay tribute to the school community, which has done tremendous work to encourage young people, and to young people themselves, who have exercised tremendous leadership. For example, I saw senior pupils from all the Perth city schools, who were involved in a venture in my constituency at the Dewars ice rink vaccination centre, promoting that to their peers. That was very successful. That is probably the best communication that there can be to encourage uptake.

The general position is encouraging but, comparatively speaking, we have weaknesses among younger people—the under-30s—and we have challenges in some areas of the country that suffer from socioeconomic deprivation, and in black and minority ethnic communities. The Government has looked carefully with health boards at the practical deployment of services and vaccination opportunities in order to ensure that we try to counter those. Mr Rowley will be familiar with the situation in his locality. His health board will have been offering various drop-in opportunities at different places to try to address that.

A lot of the approach is focused on localities in which we know that there are weaknesses. However, we cannot oblige people to take up the opportunities in a voluntary vaccination programme. We can maximise the possibilities and availability, but we cannot oblige people.

I assure the committee of two things. The first is that we should be pleased by how much progress has been made. It is a tribute to the vaccinators around the country, who have worked incredibly hard. The second is that we are taking focused measures to boost uptake where we possibly can.

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Ministerial Statement, Coronavirus Act Reports and Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 16 September 2021

John Swinney

It is vital that the scheme that we put in place is able to work effectively, and we are addressing the issues that you have fairly raised as part of the development of the necessary technology to enable that.

The basic position for implementing the scheme is very strong, as are the availability of the data in vaccination records and the relationship of those records to individuals. The demonstrations that I have seen of the technology give me a very high level of confidence about the platform on which we are operating. Of course, there will be occasions when the data do not correspond exactly and we have to work with the suppliers and technology companies that we are working with to address those issues as expeditiously as we can. We addressed those matters with Mr Mason at a previous meeting.

As for implementation, the Government takes the view that the scheme needs to be up and running on 1 October because of its necessity in contributing towards the efforts to suppress the virus. That is the rationale behind our urgency in this matter, but in our briefing document on the proposals we indicate that implementation will be founded on the application of “reasonable measures” to put that into effect. Obviously, our guidance will endeavour to address that point, too.

I am not sure whether Jason Leitch wishes to add anything to what I have said about the specific issue of vaccination records.

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Ministerial Statement, Coronavirus Act Reports and Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 16 September 2021

John Swinney

They would do that through the NHS Inform helpline, but perhaps Jason Leitch can provide some detail.

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Ministerial Statement, Coronavirus Act Reports and Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 16 September 2021

John Swinney

I understand that, but all those organisations will to some extent, at an organised event or venue, be carrying out some form of checking of individuals who are coming in, whether that is through ticket checks, purchases or whatever. We are asking that another element be introduced—which, with the assistance of technology, should not add a significant burden to the process—in order to provide an extra layer of public safety and security regarding the spread of the virus. We will provide the necessary guidance that will set out what we consider to be reasonable measures to undertake such an endeavour, and in formulating that we will continue to have discussions with the relevant sectors.

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Scotland’s Strategic Framework

Meeting date: 2 September 2021

John Swinney

I am familiar with that issue. There have been many discussions about that point. Much of that is driven by the systems of which we are a part, through operating on a UK-wide basis. The ability to have some flexibility is being assessed as part of addressing the concerns raised by the airline industry.