The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.
All Official Reports of meetings in the Debating Chamber of the Scottish Parliament.
All Official Reports of public meetings of committees.
Displaying 1467 contributions
Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee
Meeting date: 2 November 2021
John Swinney
We have to do that by creating the space to enable communities to advance the agenda, although I do not think that there is merit in replicating the burgh council model that was in place prior to the 1975 local government reorganisation.
One of the great privileges of my office is that I can see at first hand good innovations. In communities that I represent and in other communities around the country, I have seen developments emerge—through development trusts, for example—through which community capacity has been built up year after year by communities committing to that.
The concept of a development trust—that is an example and I am not prescribing it as a route; a Scottish charitable incorporated organisation or something else might be used—brings together community industry, which enables developments to take place. Other propositions grow from that, and communities can then exercise much greater and more distinctive delivery of services and purpose. Then, a positively engaged local authority will recognise that that is happening and seek to engage with the community to ensure that more functions are deployed in the locality in a way that has the impact that we all seek. That might well address some of the points that Mr Griffin put to me about the extent to which people feel that they can shape their local community agenda.
There are very good practices around the country under which local authorities enable much greater discretion to be exercised at local level. If that were to be done in partnership with the development of development trusts or SCIOs, or through wider community engagement activities, that could address the fundamental point that Elena Whitham puts to me and which I recognise—that, in some communities, people feel a sense of remoteness from public authority and are anxious to shape their community’s future better.
Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee
Meeting date: 2 November 2021
John Swinney
I recall some discussion of those points. To be on the safe side, I had better write to the committee about any specific work that has been undertaken.
To go back to the issues of local government finance, two points are relevant. First, the formula to distribute funding among local authorities is a matter of dialogue and agreement with local authorities. If there was to be any proposition to change the distribution of funding for them, that would obviously have to be agreed by them. I think that there is a reluctance in local authorities to discuss the distribution formula at present, and that has generally been the case.
Secondly, in previous budgets, we agreed a supplement for the City of Edinburgh. I negotiated that point with the late Margo MacDonald in the 2007 to 2011 session of Parliament, and that will still be factored into the budget arrangements that we have in place.
There are ways of discussing such issues. Health board funding is determined by the NHS Scotland resource allocation committee, and steps have been taken over time to address exactly the issue that Mr Briggs has put to me.
Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee
Meeting date: 2 November 2021
John Swinney
Those issues are fundamentally about addressing the points that I discussed with Elena Whitham about how to build capacity in communities so that they can exercise those influences. If we were to pitch up in communities and say, “Here’s a couple of hundred thousand pounds to do things,” some communities would be able to handle that without any difficulty whatever, because they have capacity that has probably been built up through the establishment of a development trust. There might be proceeds from wider revenue sources—for example, communities in my constituency benefit from the proceeds from renewable energy projects, so they have resources that can enable them to build up capacity.
However it happens, there has to be capacity in a community to handle things. We cannot just pitch up in a community and say to a group of volunteers, “Here you are. On you go, and good luck.” There has to be capacity, which has to be actively built up. We have a proper opportunity for local authorities to work with local communities to do that and to activate other sources of funding, whether it is through common good funds, sources such as renewable energy funds or other vehicles.
The Government and I are very supportive of the building up of that capacity. It enables communities to choose where they can exercise the greatest influence and deliver the greatest impact.
If I again think of my community, we had a day of biblical weather in my constituency on Sunday. In Alyth, which is a town that has been blighted by flooding, there is a real activation of community activity and engagement on a variety of issues but specifically on flooding. As the situation became severe on Sunday, the community activated itself. Volunteers undertook work to support and protect others and to put infrastructure in place. Through partnership with the local authority, the community has procured sandbag supplies, which are available for temporary deployment to deal with circumstances as they arise. On Sunday, volunteers were making all that happen.
The community has temporary flood defences—the ones that start off looking like pillows but end up weighing a ton once they are wet—which it deployed. Some good outcomes were delivered. That is because there is capacity to make that happen, which then engages the community. All that is done through capacity at the community level, through social media and by having a really engaged community. It is a perfect example of what I am talking about, albeit in an extreme situation. We all have communities that operate on that basis.
The challenge is how we make that a reliable, dependable and on-going feature in our delivery of public services. The Government cannot prescribe that from St Andrew’s house—it would be folly for us to do that. Having good dialogue and discussion with local authorities is essential, as is local authorities having the right outlook. If local authorities were to enter into the conversation thinking, “We must control everything; we must run everything,” they would put off local engagement. However, if there is a welcoming spirit to embrace what might be possible for a community to handle, we will see an awful lot more thriving as a consequence.
Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee
Meeting date: 2 November 2021
John Swinney
There is undoubtedly a discussion to be had on that, but I would have to inject the word “performance” into that discussion as well. Part of the reason why we have to introduce ring fencing is that we see too great a variation in performance among local authorities in Scotland. Some local authorities might be good at delivering outcomes in certain areas while others are poor at doing so. The Parliament—understandably, I think—pressures the Government to ensure that performance is at a higher level.
We have tried to address that in different ways. As part of the concordat with local authorities, in 2007, I introduced the concept of single outcome agreements. We tried to reduce the reporting burden on local authorities by putting in place agreements with them about what outcomes we could expect them to achieve if we relaxed ring fencing. I have to say that the response to that and the achievement of outcomes was highly variable around the country. The evidence supports that.
I am not in any way closed to what Councillor Evison proposes, but there would have to be an honest reflection of the fact that performance among local authorities is too variable around the country for us to be able to move confidently into that territory at this stage.
Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee
Meeting date: 2 November 2021
John Swinney
The Government gives on-going consideration to those issues through our dialogue with the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities. I cannot give you a definitive assurance because the issues are still the subject of consideration. The Cabinet Secretary for Finance and the Economy is leading the work on the development of a rules-based fiscal framework, which is being discussed with local government. That work will conclude when those discussions are completed. The finance secretary will be able to update the committee and Parliament on the development of the fiscal framework once that work has been undertaken.
It is important to recognise that, for many years, significant flexibilities have been available to local authorities for their financial management. Back in 2007, when I was the finance secretary, the Scottish Government substantively relaxed ring fencing, which was a key request of local authorities, to enable them to have a range of flexibilities at their disposal. That in itself provided local government with much greater fiscal discretion in order to address issues.
I am not sure that I would establish a connection between proposed industrial action in local authorities and a fiscal framework for local government. Those are two distinct issues. It is, of course, a matter for local authorities to conduct their employee relationships and negotiations—where it is appropriate for them to do so. Local authorities deal with those for the majority of their employees. Teachers are a somewhat different case, because a tripartite negotiating framework is in place. However, fundamentally, it is for local authorities, as employers, to take forward the relationship. I do not think that industrial action necessarily relates directly to any fiscal framework.
Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee
Meeting date: 2 November 2021
John Swinney
A national care service is currently the subject of consultation. One of the key points that the Government has made throughout is the importance of ensuring that appropriate local voices are heard when considering the approach to a national care service. It is vital that we hear from and engage with local communities on the delivery of care services, because they matter to local communities. The situation will be different in different parts of the country, so there must be variation and variety in how the service is delivered. It is critical that we hear the voices of local communities during the development of the national care service. That is a fundamental point.
I accept that local government has particular observations about the proposals, and it is important that we hear the voices of individuals who are pressing the Government—as was evident in the independent review—on issues such as the consistency of service performance and delivery in different parts of the country, and the standards that citizens can expect in all parts of the country. Those two fundamental questions have to be wrestled with during the discussions on a national care service.
COVID-19 Recovery Committee
Meeting date: 30 September 2021
John Swinney
The provision seeks to provide the appropriate opportunity for us to designate individual events that might be of a particularly noteworthy nature. For example, Her Majesty the Queen is coming to the Parliament on Saturday and I would describe that as a flagship event. There is no necessity for us to consider the issues in question, because the numbers of people involved will not be appropriate, but I can envisage flagship events to which we might all wish to give appropriate recognition. I invite Ms Sadler to come in.
11:15COVID-19 Recovery Committee
Meeting date: 30 September 2021
John Swinney
We gathered that evidence by looking at international experience. We have seen examples in other jurisdictions in which application of a Covid vaccination certification scheme has significantly increased vaccination take-up. Evidence for that has been demonstrated in other jurisdictions. One of the very strong examples is France, but there are other places where that has been the case.
We also looked at the experience that emerged from the studies that Public Health England undertook when the United Kingdom Government was exploring questions around access to events earlier this year. A lot of that research material is charted in the evidence paper that was published yesterday.
COVID-19 Recovery Committee
Meeting date: 30 September 2021
John Swinney
I do not have any information on that point, but I make two points to Mr Cole-Hamilton. First, other jurisdictions are bringing in a vaccination-only Covid certification scheme. Secondly, the Government has made a choice about the focus of the scheme, which is primarily to drive an increase in vaccination rates.
COVID-19 Recovery Committee
Meeting date: 30 September 2021
John Swinney
I am happy to consider what material we can helpfully publish to demonstrate the response and the reaction to the measures. We publish a huge amount of data on a regular basis but, if the committee wishes to specify and stipulate areas where it believes that the publication of data would be of assistance, I will be happy to consider what could be published in that context.