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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 8 April 2026
  7. Session 6: 13 May 2021 to 8 April 2026
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Displaying 881 contributions

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Economy and Fair Work Committee

Skills Delivery

Meeting date: 2 April 2025

Lorna Slater

Ian, did you have any thoughts on that?

Economy and Fair Work Committee

Skills Delivery

Meeting date: 2 April 2025

Lorna Slater

This is my last question, if the convener will indulge me. Ian, in your opening remarks you mentioned the system being at breaking point. Is now a good moment to elaborate on those thoughts?

Economy and Fair Work Committee

Skills Delivery

Meeting date: 2 April 2025

Lorna Slater

Yes, you are back.

Economy and Fair Work Committee

Skills Delivery

Meeting date: 2 April 2025

Lorna Slater

I have two questions, if the convener will allow them, but I will go for the bigger one first. My background is in electromechanical engineering, and certainly when I was an engineering student, we had the same problem then that we have now, in that the field is heavily male dominated. In various evidence sessions, we have heard that we have not made progress because of the parents, that we do not get the kids young enough, or that it is the employers. There is a lot of, “They are not doing enough in this space.” It seems that we, collectively, do not have a handle on why this is a problem, particularly in the UK. Other countries do better in engineering. I know that construction is probably a problem everywhere. Do you guys have any thoughts on why we have a persistent gender imbalance, particularly in construction, engineering and what we are calling green skills, such as those that the Energy Training Academy offers?

Economy and Fair Work Committee

Skills Delivery

Meeting date: 2 April 2025

Lorna Slater

I would like to dig into what both Andrew Lamond and Ian Hughes said about the faster, quicker learning, particularly for a mature student, in a bit more detail. One of the things that I am concerned about is the varying quality of provision, which may be because we have varying needs. I have heard a concern from trade unions and other trade bodies that apprenticeships are too quick, that we are rushing people through and that they are not gaining the right qualifications. Your view seems to be the other way around. Do you want to elaborate on that? I ask Andrew Lamond to start.

Economy and Fair Work Committee

Skills Delivery

Meeting date: 2 April 2025

Lorna Slater

My next question is for Kellie Zdanowicz. During our evidence gathering, we have heard from employers about their frustrations with college provision—some of which you have outlined—including the timing of that provision and colleges not being able to keep up with the technology. Lothian Buses is using hydrogen buses and electric buses, and the colleges just cannot keep up with the technology. On the flipside of that, I have heard from apprentices who are going through independent training providers. Do you also represent employers who do their own training?

Economy and Fair Work Committee

Skills Delivery

Meeting date: 2 April 2025

Lorna Slater

One of the complaints that I have had from apprentices who are on that route is that they miss out on the peer support, activities and study space that college apprentices get. They do not have the peer networks, mental health support or social opportunities that college apprentices have and they feel the lack of those. Do you have any thoughts on that?

Economy and Fair Work Committee

Skills Delivery

Meeting date: 2 April 2025

Lorna Slater

Do you have any thoughts on how those soft provisions could be provided for apprentices? I hear what you are saying about not putting everyone through college, but if there is only one young person in a business, how might peer-to-peer learning, having someone to study with and having a space to study in be provided where a college is not part of the apprenticeship? Are there other routes?

Economy and Fair Work Committee

Skills Delivery

Meeting date: 26 March 2025

Lorna Slater

Thank you.

Finally, I have heard good things about the expertise in SDS with regard to supporting apprenticeships, particularly from the trade unions, which are very concerned that that expertise will be lost with the move to the Scottish Funding Council. I forget how many staff you have working on this—I think that it is in the region of 100 or so—and we do not yet know how many of them will be moved over. The trade unions are very worried about losing the skills and expertise in delivering apprenticeships when that funding is moved to SFC.

Economy and Fair Work Committee

Skills Delivery

Meeting date: 26 March 2025

Lorna Slater

Thanks for that.

My next question is about the delivery of apprenticeships through colleges versus other training providers. I realise that there is some push and pull in that respect: colleges are always desperate for more funds, so they would like to take on more of the apprenticeship training role, but employers including Lothian Buses, which the committee has visited, say that colleges are inflexible. They work to the academic year, which means that, if you employ someone in January, they cannot start training at the college until September. Moreover, colleges have trouble getting lecturers to do this kind of work, and it can mean an apprentice having to go to college three mornings a week instead of one day a week, which disrupts their work.

How do we deal with that balance? Colleges definitely want more money, but they do not seem to be up to the job of delivering the skills in the way that businesses need them to. They cannot keep up with the tech, and they cannot deliver on the timelines.