The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.
All Official Reports of meetings in the Debating Chamber of the Scottish Parliament.
All Official Reports of public meetings of committees.
Displaying 1069 contributions
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 2 September 2025
Craig Hoy
You have a presumption against it.
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 2 September 2025
Craig Hoy
But surely if you set a 9 per cent pay policy and you are at 7-plus per cent after two years, with inflation running at more than 3 per cent—and it could be higher or lower by the time that we get to the third year of the negotiation—you are effectively saying that your negotiating position is nil, because you are not willing to countenance strike action. Therefore, the public sector unions have you over a barrel, have they not?
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 2 September 2025
Craig Hoy
But—
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 2 September 2025
Craig Hoy
This question is more about the costs between now and the end of the decade. You have set public pay policy at 9 per cent over the next three years. In the first two years, the figure has exceeded 7.4 per cent in some areas. Obviously, you will not be in post, but, thinking beyond the election, how rigid will the Government be in the remainder of the public sector pay negotiations? Are you now saying that, if the level is presently running at 7.4 per cent, then 1.6 per cent is the limit, or are you willing to breach your own public sector pay policy?
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 2 September 2025
Craig Hoy
You have achieved £300 million of savings, and you are now proposing a figure of £2 billion. I want to look at some of the risks that your civil servants have identified. The document that I have says:
“There is a risk that by focussing workforce reductions on corporate functions we reduce capacity to develop and implement the changes required within functions to deliver savings”.
Effectively, that means that if you get rid of those people, you potentially get rid of the capacity to make the efficiency savings that you desire to make.
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 2 September 2025
Craig Hoy
As anybody who has run a business will realise, however, the first 5 per cent of savings is the easiest to achieve; it gets tougher as you cut in.
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 2 September 2025
Craig Hoy
Good morning, cabinet secretary. The convener has identified a number of the very real risks that run through the fiscal delivery plan. However, obviously, you are setting significant store on making savings of £2 billion—£1 billion through the public service reform targets that were set out by Ivan McKee on 19 June. When he made his statement to the Parliament, he said that his plan was “rooted in realism”, but
“not in a headline-grabbing way that simply throws out random targets”.—[Official Report, 19 June 2025; c57.]
You will be aware that we have received, through a freedom of information request, a significant body of paperwork relating to the preparations for that announcement. One key element that stands out is that there were significant concerns among both the civil servants and your Cabinet colleagues about the ability to achieve that £1 billion. I draw your attention to paragraph 17 on page 3 of a document that we received, which was dated 22 May, from the directorate for public service reform. It says:
“We have set out ... that there is not a specific breakdown of the £1 billion target and there is an element of risk in this approach.”
Was that “rooted in realism” or simply written on the back of a fag packet?
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 2 September 2025
Craig Hoy
Another risk involves devolved social security. Professor Ulph, when you were previously before the committee, you put to us quite interesting and alarming statistics about the refusal rates for adult disability payment being 16 per cent in England and 2 per cent in Scotland. When we put those numbers to the Scottish Government, it said that we were comparing apples and pears and that the difference was something to do with the fact that the benefit was recently devolved. Have you been able to interrogate that data further to show whether it results from a policy approach or the recent devolution of benefits?
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 2 September 2025
Craig Hoy
I presume that the risk is that, if the Government does not meet its 0.5 per cent target, this is all compounding through the system, eventually, because there will be a larger civil service than the Government projected and potentially higher pay than it had included in its pay policy. That is the risk, is it not?
Finance and Public Administration Committee
Meeting date: 2 September 2025
Craig Hoy
Can I interrupt for a second, minister? Paragraph 21 says:
“There are risks in this approach, in that we are setting a stretch target”—
that is, a very ambitious target—
“and cannot, at this time, fully set out to the Minister where the savings will come from. The key issue for this strategy is ensuring the Minister is content with the level of risk between what is fairly secure”—
it has not been tied down—
“and what is assumed to come through the commitments in the strategy.”
It is not a clearly set-out plan, is it?