The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.
All Official Reports of meetings in the Debating Chamber of the Scottish Parliament.
All Official Reports of public meetings of committees.
Displaying 1797 contributions
Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 28 October 2025
Maggie Chapman
Good morning, cabinet secretary and officials. Thank you for joining us this morning. I have a couple of questions on slightly different but related points. I will stick with part 1 for now. Many stakeholders have said that the bill conflates religious observance with religious and moral education. Although that is the case in existing legislation, we have heard quite a lot of very clear evidence and very strong support for the view that it should not be possible to opt out of RME, because of its value and its educational role in our society. Why did the Government not take the opportunity with this legislation to make that distinction in law and say, “RME is core to our curriculum and we will not have young people opting out, whether it is them or their parents doing that, because it is a fundamental area of our education”?
Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 28 October 2025
Maggie Chapman
Thank you. Those comments are useful, and they reinforce what Marie McNair said about the need for clear guidance on interpretation so that children and young people are not forced to take that step to seek clarification of whether an exemption should apply through the courts. We do not want our young people to have to do that. I hope that we would have systems in place that deal with some of those issues before court actions and court decisions are required. That was a helpful clarification.
Cabinet secretary, my final question relates to something that you said in your letter to the committee, in which you talked about engagement with the UK Government to explore the
“removal of any legislative restrictions that currently limit the Scottish Parliament’s ability to enhance human rights protections”.
You said that if there was no progress within the next 12 months, the Scottish Government would commission a review of UK acts. Can you say a little bit more about the rationale for the 12-month period and how those conversations with the UK Government are going?
11:15Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 28 October 2025
Maggie Chapman
I was not suggesting that RME be put on a statutory footing.
Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 28 October 2025
Maggie Chapman
Thank you. There will be different views on whether the matter could be dealt with through the bill. Linked to that, given the concluding observations of the UN Committee on the Rights of the Child, which has twice—in 2016 and in 2023—suggested that children should have the right to withdraw from collective worship, which means RO, not RME, can you give us more detail of why you have not gone down the route of enacting those recommendations, which have been made twice in the past nine years?
Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 28 October 2025
Maggie Chapman
Yes.
Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 28 October 2025
Maggie Chapman
We will come to that issue.
Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 28 October 2025
Maggie Chapman
Thanks, cabinet secretary. However, in coming to that middle ground, there is a risk that you do not appease anyone and that you do not make anybody happy by—
Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 28 October 2025
Maggie Chapman
That is helpful. Thank you.
Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 28 October 2025
Maggie Chapman
—I accept that your position is where you are just now.
In a slightly different space—this might have an impact on the numbers and awareness of the right, which other members will speak about—there was concern about whether young people might feel othered by some of the conversations in that regard and in relation to children being able to opt back in if they have been withdrawn. We heard some quite concerning evidence from Leah Rivka about what were, quite frankly, completely inappropriate comments by staff members. Whether it is through guidance or additional training, how do you see us dealing with potential othering or concerns about othering and the inappropriate comments that are being made, whether we like it or not?
Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 7 October 2025
Maggie Chapman
Good morning and thank you for joining us. I thank Douglas Hutchison for clearly articulating what I think we have heard from every panel, and probably every individual witness, since we started our scrutiny of the bill, on the distinction between religious observance and religious and moral education. That has come through loud and clear. We have to deal with the bill that is in front of us, so we are talking about both aspects, but we all get the need to separate them, so I will take that as understood.
I am interested in hearing views from both of you on how things are currently working, on levels of awareness of the right to withdraw and on how schools and teachers deal with potentially awkward conversations. I come to Susan Quinn first.