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Seòmar agus comataidhean

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 27 February 2026
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Displaying 824 contributions

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Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 18 March 2025

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

The Workplace (Health, Safety and Welfare) Regulations 1992 state that changing rooms

“shall not be suitable unless they include separate facilities for, or separate use of facilities by, men and women where necessary for reasons of propriety”.

It is the Scottish Government’s duty to ensure that all public bodies comply with such regulations. However, we have seen female nurses and female police officers being forced to share changing facilities with biologically male colleagues. Why are the health boards and Police Scotland not complying with the regulations?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 18 March 2025

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

Thank you.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 18 March 2025

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

You will be glad to know that I have only two more questions.

The Scottish Prison Service policy for the management of transgender people in custody allows for some men and trans identities to be housed in the women’s estate. That includes violent men, providing they do not have a known record of violence against women. In its equality and human rights impact assessment, the SPS says that it is public sector equality duty compliant. Is the Scottish Government confident that the SPS is PSED compliant?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 18 March 2025

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

Please do discuss them, because the situation right now is not very fair for women and girls out there. They do not have their dignity, respect or fairness right now, because they have to share single-sex spaces and services in many places. I hope that the Government will provide some clarity on this issue.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 18 March 2025

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

Good morning, and thank you for the information that you have provided so far.

John Wilkes, last week we heard from Jatin Haria from the Coalition for Racial Equality and Rights. On the issue of reporting on the gender pay gap for women, he said:

“the numbers are stark enough to suggest that somebody is not doing their job.”—[Official Report, Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee, 11 March 2025; c 15.]

When I asked him to go into more detail, he said that the issue extends to the Scottish Government and the Equality and Human Rights Commission. What is your response to that?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 18 March 2025

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

Thank you for providing clarity. There is fear about how people are interpreting the law for their organisations and fear that many more legal cases will be spurred on, because people are unclear about what should be done. As a member of the Parliament, I can see that people are unclear, so it was important that I asked you the question about how the EHRC perceives the issue, which is about how people are interpreting the law. You have guidance, which, I take it, any organisation can approach you for. Your doors are open, which is a good thing.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 18 March 2025

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

We live in hope.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 18 March 2025

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

Good morning, minister and officials. Thank you for the information that you have provided so far.

Last week, we heard from Jatin Haria from the Coalition for Racial Equality and Rights. When it comes to reporting on the gender pay gap, he said:

“the numbers are stark enough to suggest that somebody is not doing their job.”—[Official Report, Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee, 11 March 2025; c 15.]

When I asked him to go into more detail, he said that this extends to both the Scottish Government and the EHRC. I said that I would ask the Scottish Government about it, knowing that you were coming in today, minister. How do you respond to the comment that the Scottish Government is not doing its job?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 11 March 2025

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

That was very helpful. I will certainly be asking the Scottish Government about this next week.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 11 March 2025

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

I want to talk about not only toilets but facilities in general. We are not talking only about need, but about religion. My parents came to Scotland and I was born here, in Glasgow, and I think that equality should be there for everybody and needs should be addressed for everybody—I absolutely agree with that. However, we are talking about breaking a religion here. If I was in a changing room with my mother or Muslim auntie and she had to change in front of a biological male, that would break our religion. There are many consequences for that in the Muslim faith, in Indian faith and in other faiths that I could mention. How can we have balance in that regard? That is what this question involves.

I acknowledge what you are saying about need but, right now, people out there are really confused. It is not just about women and girls; it is about faith and religion. There is so much going on out there and nobody knows where the guidance is or who is guiding who. People from all backgrounds—not just religious backgrounds—are confused.

How do you see those issues? It is not just about toilets. I know for a fact that a Muslim woman cannot go into a changing room and change in the presence of a trans woman, because that person is a biological male. That view should not offend anybody. It is our religion, and we cannot change that. I am not going to break my religion for somebody else—I will be honest about that. I know how to keep myself safe and keep to my faith.

How do you balance those issues? I know that it is not just women from the older generation who would not go into that room; it is people from the younger generation, too.