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Once again, it is important to note that I am simply introducing the bill today. People will have opportunities for input. If you feel that what I am proposing should be delivered in a different way or that the bill should be amended, I am quite open to using the expertise of the committee, and I am open to listening to what everybody says.

I will pass over to Agata Maslowska to deal with the cost issue.

In relation to rehabilitation, as many members already know, the Scottish Government was meant to roll out the Caledonian system to 32 local authorities. It is 2025, but that has been rolled out to only 21 local authorities, which is not pleasing. On top of that, different systems are being used out there, so not all local authorities will be using the Caledonian system.

However, on the resource side, the Government has pledged that it will roll out that system, so I do not think that there will be what I would call additional need, because that system is already being rolled out. My bill would put in statute a provision that would ensure that that happens.

My bill covers three areas. It deals with what happens when someone is convicted. Mandatory assessment is important in determining whether rehabilitation would be suitable for someone who has been convicted of domestic abuse, which is not the case at the moment. That requirement would apply when someone is convicted, when they are in prison and when they leave prison, when the Parole Board would have to obtain an assessment. At each point that rehabilitation could be provided, my bill would help people by making sure that we have that programme in place.

I have been in this Parliament for four years, and I know how much members talk about helping people rather than punishing them. I think that my bill goes the extra mile to help people by providing not only for education but for the collection of data, rehabilitation and a notification system that would protect victims from serious offenders.

I will hand over to my colleague Charlie Pound to answer your technical question.

I have to disagree with you there. When bringing forward legislation, whether it is a member’s bill or a Scottish Government bill, if we were to pack up and say, “Hold on—this legislation is not right,” we would never bring forward any legislation at all. Right now, there is a big, deep increase in domestic abuse, and we need to do more to tackle that.

I listened to survivors and to organisations before introducing my bill. I take the issue of domestic abuse very seriously, which is why I brought the bill to Parliament—I believe that it is needed. We should not think, “Hold on—there was poor legislation in 2021.” If anything, that should make us see that we should pass good legislation, such as my bill, that will actually make a difference in protecting people.

I do not think for one minute that we should step back in our role as parliamentarians and think, “Hold on—we’re not going to be putting anything through.” It is up to the Scottish Government to answer the question as to why the 2021 act has not been implemented. I am sure that when I see Siobhian Brown, not long from now, I will ask her that question.

We have been elected, and we are in the Scottish Parliament, to make good legislation—I agree with that. However, we should not be scared to make any legislation that will help, because in Scotland we are absolutely amazing in respect of the historic legislation that we have passed in Parliament. We need to say that we have made good legislation as well. I hope that that helps.

I will bring in Charlie Pound on that technical issue.

My bill sets out a provision for education. With regard to what that education would look like, I have said that it would be about domestic abuse. On how it would be delivered and what it would look like, it will be important, again, that the right sort of consultation is undertaken with the right authorities—the right people and the experts—to ensure that the provision is implemented. The onus is on the Scottish Government to ensure that the provision is taken forward—that is why my bill is there. As I said, I am sure that the Scottish Government will be open to consultation in order to shape what that education will look like.

I will start by saying a bit about the financial side. We are talking about a maximum cost of £23 million, which is only 0.5 per cent of the justice budget. In my opening statement, I mentioned that domestic abuse costs the public sector £7 billion over a three-year average period of abuse. We should also not forget, when we talk about domestic abuse in monetary terms, that we are talking about real people. Even one person going through domestic abuse is one too many, and we know that many have lost their lives. The money will be very well spent.

We talk about a figure of £23 million, but that is the highest amount. As we go through the bill, members will see that there are certain things for which we can look at mitigating costs as we go along. You mentioned the costs around part 1 of the bill, but part 1 is essential and important. I have spoken to many survivors—I have spoken to the organisations, too—and not one survivor said to me, “Pam, we don’t need this so-called notification” or register, as one might call it.

Notification is important because right now, to be honest, if I were not a politician, I certainly would not know anything about any disclosure scheme or anything in that respect. I know about that only because I am a politician and I am doing the work. I will describe a scenario that might play out. If I was a survivor and I was experiencing domestic abuse, I would not know to pick up the phone and to look for a disclosure scheme. I would be domestically abused, and the abuse would carry on. Coming from a BAME background, and having friends from other backgrounds, I know that the abuse continues on and on.

Having a lifeline, and knowing that somebody out there—the authorities, whether it is MAPPA or the police—has a little bit more information than I do, might save my life. The notification provisions in part 1 would require that the information has to be provided by the offender. That has never been done before, as far as I know, in any legislation to do with domestic abuse. The offender would have to go into a police station or to a member of police staff to give the information that their circumstances have changed. That could save somebody’s life. I believe, therefore, not only that the bill is a lifeline, but that the notification scheme would give victims a feeling that there is extra safeguarding, and that there is somebody else out there looking out for them so that they will be notified.

Last but not least, the bill could be a deterrent. Who wants to be on a so-called notification database or register? We know that it could act as a deterrent, in a similar way to the sex offenders register.

I have got all that information from my consultations. I went out to do personal, informal consultations: one in 2024, and then the main consultation; the committee has that information in front of them.

I did not take the decision to introduce the bill at all lightly, convener. I hope that I have answered your questions.

The question is around there not being enough BSL support in rural areas. A couple of weeks ago, we heard from a witness who was a survivor of domestic abuse. What should people like that do, especially if they stay in rural areas such as Argyll and Bute? How would they get that service?

Good morning, Deputy First Minister and officials. Thank you for all the information that you have provided so far. I will turn my question around a little bit because you have been talking about education; I will come in on education first.

In private evidence sessions, the committee heard from deaf pupils and parents who said that, in many cases, pupils placed in mainstream schools face difficulties, because there are not enough BSL specialists, and teachers are not properly equipped to deal with the needs of deaf pupils. One of the pupils who we spoke to said that it was difficult to keep up with the work and, therefore, she failed her exams. Witnesses expressed their disappointment with the Government’s Education (Scotland) Bill, saying that it does not deliver for deaf people.

It would be great to hear from you, Deputy First Minister, on how we can improve the outcomes for deaf children. Alison and Robert have said that quite a bit of work is being done, and it would be good to hear about that, but, as Dr Robert Adam said earlier, what are the ramifications of not delivering? Accountability is needed; otherwise, deaf people are just being paid lip service. This is clearly a big issue, and I would like to hear your plans to sort it.

Thank you for that, Deputy First Minister. The people who we heard from said that school teachers should be qualified to level 3 in BSL and that there are opportunities for more deaf or deafblind people to teach or help in the system. Those may be things for you to look at.

Two weeks ago, the committee heard from Lucy Clark, who is a deaf survivor of domestic abuse. She said that there are only three BSL-trained domestic abuse advocates in Scotland, all of whom are based in Dundee. Lucy said that finding an interpreter is always at the forefront of a deaf woman’s mind and that many interpreters find it challenging to cover areas of domestic abuse. Deaf women already face so many day-to-day challenges and it is even more harrowing to know that, when a woman needs support the most, it is not there. What is being done to help women such as Lucy?

Thank you. Lucy Clark also highlighted that many deaf women who experience domestic abuse assume that it is normal behaviour and do not even know what consent means. While working on my Prevention of Domestic Abuse (Scotland) Bill, I came across a woman who had slurred speech, and she said that her abuser had told the police and the authorities that she was drunk, which meant that she was not taken seriously.

Data collection is key to having a clear picture of which communities are more likely to be affected by domestic abuse. That is why my bill seeks to place a requirement on authorities to collect data such as age, sex, disability and ethnicity. Do you have the figures to hand on the percentage of deaf women who are survivors of domestic abuse? Do you agree that accurate data collection is key to understanding which communities are most likely to be affected by it?