The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.
All Official Reports of meetings in the Debating Chamber of the Scottish Parliament.
All Official Reports of public meetings of committees.
Displaying 1073 contributions
Criminal Justice Committee (Draft)
Meeting date: 24 September 2025
Katy Clark
I want to ask about drug deaths in custody in prison. There are unacceptably high levels of drug deaths, and no death is acceptable. One witness told us that
“We have not looked enough at the drivers of the increased number of deaths in prisons.”—[Official Report, Criminal Justice Committee, 4 June 2025; c 47.]
It would be interesting to know whether you agree with that statement and to hear your thoughts on what the drivers are. Do the determinations of fatal accident inquiries give us some of the insights that we need? I appreciate that you have already referred to the rise in the strength of the drugs that are in prisons, cabinet secretary—I do not know who would be best to comment on that first.
Criminal Justice Committee (Draft)
Meeting date: 24 September 2025
Katy Clark
You made that point clearly, right at the beginning of the evidence session. Liam Kerr also raised the issue of overcrowding—we have heard evidence that the boredom that people face and the lack of meaningful activity are another driver that drives people to drugs.
We have heard evidence that toxicology results of drug tests can generally take up to 18 months, which can delay learning. Are you looking at that? Is that an accurate reflection of the situation?
Criminal Justice Committee (Draft)
Meeting date: 24 September 2025
Katy Clark
That would be extremely helpful. Any further information about delays that could be addressed would be of interest to the committee.
Criminal Justice Committee (Draft)
Meeting date: 24 September 2025
Katy Clark
I agree that there should not be a gap in hate crime legislation, so it is quite right that the Scottish Government is coming forward with proposals. Leaving aside all the debates around the misogyny bill for now—I appreciate that we may come back to that in relation to new offences and that these proposals are perhaps a different and additional approach—I note that Engender thinks that
“the hate crimes model was not designed to address the nature and scale of”
violence and discrimination against women. Moreover, the working group said that it would be very difficult to prove that a specific act had happened based on sex.
Does the cabinet secretary agree with those points? If so, how has that element been taken into account in the drafting of the SSI? Has there been consideration as to whether it is simply a matter of slotting in the word “sex”, which seems to be the case in the SSI, or whether the matter needs to be addressed in a different way, with further redrafting? Did the cabinet secretary grapple with or have discussions with officials about the issue?
Criminal Justice Committee (Draft)
Meeting date: 24 September 2025
Katy Clark
That is helpful. It seems that there really is not very much flexibility around that, given how the original legislation was drafted.
Perhaps you have considered, especially given some of the complexity of such issues, how the change will be addressed in the training of the police and other agencies that are responsible for implementing the new provision. Has there been discussion about that?
Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 17 September 2025
Katy Clark
So it is treated as a criminal matter. I understand.
We have heard a lot of evidence of inconsistency of practice across prisons and, in particular, inconsistency of provision of medication, recovery and other support services. The Scottish Recovery Consortium has said that there should be a minimum set of standards across prisons. What is your response to that?
Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 17 September 2025
Katy Clark
You have made the point about access and organisation more than once in your evidence today, and we have also heard a lot of evidence about the lack of continuity of care and inconsistencies throughout the system in relation to throughcare and release. We have heard many examples of very good practice in some prisons, but clearly it is not uniform, and there are some very bad examples, too. Can you tell us a little bit about how you think good practice can be shared across the estate?
Perhaps you can also pick up some of the points that have already been made about whether the problem is lack of resource or cultural, and about whether we are not organising ourselves well enough to ensure that we are able to deliver, for example, the throughcare and release planning that is needed. As we know, the evidence shows that the more planning for release that is done, the more successful that release is and the less reoffending that takes place.
Who would like to respond to that?
10:45Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 17 September 2025
Katy Clark
It is not just about throughcare—I have raised the experience of prisoners both serving their sentences and coming to their release. There seem to be inconsistencies of approach throughout the estate. Is it fair to say that?
Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 17 September 2025
Katy Clark
I want to come in on a different issue.
Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 17 September 2025
Katy Clark
Without focusing on the specific example that I mentioned, as it might be an extreme one, can you give us a bit more information about how possession of drugs is dealt with in prisons? It might have all sorts of consequences, including on length of sentence.