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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Session 6: 13 May 2021 to 27 March 2026
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Displaying 1113 contributions

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Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Assisted Dying for Terminally Ill Adults (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 January 2025

Neil Gray

I cannot say much more than I have already said in my memorandum to the committee. However, to summarise the Government’s views, we believe that the bill in its current form is outside the legislative competence of the Scottish Parliament. In particular, we believe that section 15(8), which gives power to the Scottish ministers to specify in regulations a drug or other substance as an “approved substance” to be provided to terminally ill adults to end their own life, appears to relate to the reserved matter of medicines, medical supplies and poisons, as set out in section J4 of schedule 5 to the Scotland Act 1998.

Given that the bill represents a novel and fundamental shift in the role of medical practitioners and the regulatory framework in which they operate—a shift from protecting or enhancing patients’ lives to assisting in the termination of life—we also have concerns that some of the other provisions in the bill may relate to the reserved matter of the regulation of health professionals, as set out in section G2 of schedule 5 to the Scotland Act 1998. That is a confirmation of the position that I set out in the memorandum.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Assisted Dying for Terminally Ill Adults (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 January 2025

Neil Gray

In the Government memorandum, I set out the elements around the potential costs. On the particular issue that Mr Torrance raises about training costs, if we were to assume that half of all doctors would undergo training, and that the training time would be around seven hours—as is suggested in Mr McArthur’s financial memorandum—there would be a total cost of just over £6 million for training time, which has not been factored in. Again, that is for the Parliament and the committee to consider. We have noted that as part of our memorandum to the committee for you to consider.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Assisted Dying for Terminally Ill Adults (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 January 2025

Neil Gray

I have not had that concern expressed to me or suggested as a motivation behind someone supporting an assisted dying bill or otherwise. We will continue to make palliative care available as universally and equitably as we possibly can. I believe that, in the steps that we have taken in the proposed budget, we can see a continued improvement in that position with regard to the direct funding that we are seeking to provide to hospices, which, like many other social care providers, are facing a particular challenge with the likes of the increase in employer national insurance contributions that is coming down the track. We are looking to support those organisations as best we can, while obviously wanting to see the UK Government resolve that matter at source.

As for the funding that we provide to our health and social care partnerships and our health boards, it is for them to direct where that goes, based on the demand being placed on them—in this case, with regard to palliative care services. We will continue to work with them to ensure that such care can be provided as universally and equitably as possible.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Assisted Dying for Terminally Ill Adults (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 January 2025

Neil Gray

Ms Harper is correct.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Assisted Dying for Terminally Ill Adults (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 January 2025

Neil Gray

We have extensive policy positioning on this area. The consultation on our draft palliative care strategy has just concluded. We are considering the responses and expect to be able to publish the strategy later this year.

As Mr Whittle will have seen in the draft budget, we have put extensive additional funding—£21.7 billion—into health and social care services in general, and we expect local boards to ensure that adequate palliative care provision is available. We have also included a line for increased hospice care funding and a proposal to align pay and conditions in the hospice sector with the national health service agenda for change conditions, so that we can ensure that adequate palliative care is in place.

I am very grateful to the people in the NHS, the hospice sector, community and social care, and general practice who provide extensive palliative care support, whether in a hospital, someone’s home, a care home or a hospice. The tireless efforts that they make to do so receive my extensive thanks. We, in the Parliament, have a role to play to help people to understand what palliative care is and is not and what interaction it has with the bill in order to ensure that stigma around palliative care and dying is addressed. With that in mind, we will look to ensure that we are doing everything that is possible to provide the palliative care support that people need and expect.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Assisted Dying for Terminally Ill Adults (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 January 2025

Neil Gray

I have seen some of the evidence from the likes of the BMA and some palliative care professionals in relation to that point. I understand the perspectives that have been put across. It will be for the committee to report on and for the Parliament to consider. Thereafter, the Government will take a firmer position on those topics.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Assisted Dying for Terminally Ill Adults (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 January 2025

Neil Gray

I know that the Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee, which is the regulatory committee, has considered that point. I cannot comment on it beyond what I have set out in the Government’s memorandum. I hope that Ms Mochan will understand.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Assisted Dying for Terminally Ill Adults (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 January 2025

Neil Gray

I thank Mr Sweeney for his question and understand his reasons behind it. We have set out our position on legislative competence in our memorandum. I recognise that Mr McArthur has sought to propose options. Should the bill pass stage 1, we would look at what options might work. At this stage, there is nothing further for me to add.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Assisted Dying for Terminally Ill Adults (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 January 2025

Neil Gray

I will try to be as helpful as possible.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Assisted Dying for Terminally Ill Adults (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 January 2025

Neil Gray

Not at this stage, no.